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There is an old Arab Bedouin saying: “I, against my brothers. I and my brothers against my cousins. I and my brothers and my cousins against the world.” In this episode the guys consider examples of being part of a tribe in both business and the wider society and talk about the pros and cons of tribalism.

In this episode the guys talk about the importance of separating behaviour and opinion from the person. In a seemingly ever polarising world, both at work and in society generally, just because an individual does or says something you don’t like or agree with, it doesn’t automatically mean that that individual is an ‘evil’ person, whose raison d’etre is to piss you off. People aren’t bad people simply because they don’t agree with us, perhaps we should try and understand the world from their perspective, rather than simply tell them they are wrong. Once we understand that other person’s perspective, then we can work with them to meet a common goal. Don’t simply call them an f***ing idiot because they don’t see things the way you do! Remember, in the words of Brene Brown - “People are hard to hate close up. Move in.”

Fergus Lawson studied French at University and developed a love for France and the French culture. He has been an organizational development and leadership consultant across the public sector for the main part of his career, working with the National Health Service, the Metropolitan Police in London and the London Ambulance Service. In this interview Fergus talks about the challenges of public sector leadership, including the need to understand the context you are leading in, taking a whole systems approach to change and leaving your f***ing ego at the door.

With a podcast title in homage to Monty Python's 'Life of Brian', the guys discuss the Four Directional Influence Model from their book "I Need To F***ing Talk T You The Art Of Difficult Workplace Conversations'.